Introducing Charlie

Which magazine is the road test article from? I always assumed that all Mk III's had the fully South African built 998cc as detailed in Ryno's book.

The road test was in the September 1969 issue of Car Magazine South Africa. The car that was tested was a prototype, so possibly the engine was as well, but I do know that the gearbox is completely unique to these cars, so the possibility of an 1100 head could be likely.

Jared, what makes the Mk 3 gearbox unique?

I don't know about internationally, but the gearbox is unique to South Africa in the sense that the gear ratios were different.

1st Gear : 3.525 (this was the same as the later Clubmans and other models, while for all other early engines the ratio was 3.626)
2nd Gear : 2.218 (this was the same as the later Clubmans and other models, while for all other early engines the ratio was 2.172)
3rd Gear : 1.412 (the later Clubmans and other models had a ration of 1.433)

The Final Drive was a 3.765, which was the same as all the other early models, while the later models was 3.44. Thus, the gearboxes were totally unigue in terms of their ratios. This was to compensate for the extra weight and to then aid in acceleration.

J, Thanks for the explanation.

No problem. Does anyone here know if these same ratios were used on international cars like the Hornet or Elf?

That's what I want to check. The South African cars are interesting and often different from those built elsewhere, but I would be surprised if the gearbox was different. What's the casting number on the front of the case?

I'll have to have a look for the casting number this weekend, as the motor is in the garage facing the wall.

I think you can work out the answer by consulting the gear ratio tables, listed by model and year in Ryno Verster's book. I haven't read this up in a while but I seem to recall the ratios are similar to van and pickups but the final drive is different from those models.

Kev

I messaged the person who posted this photo on a Mercedes forum.... maybe I will get a reply with more photos/info. Photo is of his mother's car. [img][/img]

Wow, that car really is a beautiful looking thing.

I looked in Ryno Verster's book and he notes that the Mk3 was the first Mini in South Africa to be offered with the full synchromesh 4 speed gearbox as well as floor mounted gear lever. I also looked up the ratio table for the different gear ratios by year and model etc and I noticed even the Van and Pickups had the same ratios as every other model of the time, obviously apart from the Cooper and S. The only similarity between the Mk3 and Van/Pickup was the final drive of 3.765

Thanks for correcting the information about gear ratios - I am almost as old as my Mini and clearly my memory isn't what it used to be

Kev

So,
I sent a message to Gavin, asking about the MK3 photo he posted on a Mercedes forum and here is his response:

Hi Mark

My mum and dad bought the car new, but unfortunately it fell off the train on the way to Johannesburg from the Leyland factory. Some extensive body repair work was done, an my parents got quite a discount as a result. This car was to replace a 1960's yellow mini my mum had. The new car was light grey with a white roof. I cannot recall the interior colour, but I can always remember my mum reaching over to hold the door closed when she went round a right hand corner, and the same on her side too if it was a left hand corner!

The repairs soon came to light, and my father had the car tidied and sold it on in about 1974 or '75. I should imagine it is in car heaven by the end of the 70's.

Sadly that is the one of the few pictures we have. There were none of the interior.

Do keep in touch.

Gavin

It's a pity that that car fell off the train during transit, but thankfully it was fixed up. I wonder how many people have photos of these cars that are able to share them with us.

A pity. I was relieved when he wrote me the car's color, as I wouldn't want to be the owner of a car that fell off a train (regardless of the car's dramatic history). I think it was a light blue Mk3
-M

Well mine was light blue and there's evidence of the right wing being replaced

I was just kidding... I saw your car was blue.
I think he wrote it was a grey car.
M

I know

But whoever replaced the wing on my car did a very shoddy job of it, the seam strip wasn't even put back on properly. The lower section of it was pop riveted on, and skew at that as well. So I'm going to have to fix this up before the Group 2 arches can go on.

The gearbox casing number is 22G1128.

Thanks for the casting number. We're getting closer.

That casting was used for the first 4 synchro gearboxes through until the rod change was introduced. It was most commonly a remote shift gearbox (both Mini and ADO16); although, a magic wand version was made. Both yoke and Hardy Spicer outputs were used and 3.765 and 3.444 final drives were the most common.

Now, all I have to do is dig up the gear ratios on the English gearboxes to match to the Mk 3...

I was just curious as I thought that might be the case, i.e. being a generic gearbox casing. I'm just really interested to find out what the English ratios were for the Hornet/Elf.

This link might be quite useful or informative.

http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk/pdf/gearboxes.pdf

Mark's web site is a good one for things like that and a good Forum. I've used that listing before. It has been accurate for the gearboxes I've had to look up. Wish it had the gear ratios, too.

For all we know, the ratios for the English 'boxes could be the same as the normal saloon cars.