1965 mk1 Riley Elf

Morning all,

I've just bought a Riley Elf off EBay so thought I had better introduce myself. It's a 1965 mk1 and has been left outside with a leaky sunroof for ten years so the bodywork is shot. It's missing a lot of it's original parts notably bumpers, front and rear seats, dash, steering column, wheels, engine, gearbox. It's also had a 1980s fibreglass body kit fitted. So all in all it's looking pretty sad.

So why did I buy it? Well I used to rally a mk1 mini a few years back in the historic rally car register road rally series and did a rally a couple of months back and got the itch again

This car has a 1275gt twin carb engine, cooper S remote gearbox with hardy spicer drive shafts and cooper S brakes front and rear. So mechanically a pretty good starting point for a historic rally car.

I havent picked it up yet and from reading this forum I can't post photos straight away so no photos yet but if you google the eBay item number 120983503448 you can still see the listing

It does come with some spares from a second elf the owner broke back in the eighties so I'm hoping to sell those and trade for some of the bits i need. Plus a trailer to bring it home on as a bonus

My plan is to get it back, strip it bare then get it blasted to see what shape the shell is in then take it from there

Phil
Having just done a search on google I see it has already been on this forum

Welcome to our little but lively forum. Sorry you have to wait until you have posted a few times before you can post photos but that helps keeps a certain amount of spam out!
It may help if you put your location on so that other members can offer to help etc.
Tony
Admin

Thanks Tony, always a pleasure to join a new minority group of enthusiasts. I'm in Camberley in Surrey. Are there any locals out there?

Yes Phil, I believe we have a few, in and around your area and I'm sure they will pop up on here shortly

good luck with the car chum and welcome to our little bit of t'interweb.

1965 would make it a mkII though rather than a mkI - lots of cooper bits in there so i hope the shell's not too rotten. hope it goes well

Big_Al_Smith wrote:good luck with the car chum and welcome to our little bit of t'interweb.

1965 would make it a mkII though rather than a mkI - lots of cooper bits in there so i hope the shell's not too rotten. hope it goes well

You took the words right out of my mouth Big_Al_Smith - so to speak.....
Why is there so much confusion in identifying Mk.1s, Mk.2s, & Mk.3s one from another ?
The Mk.1 first appeared in 1961 and was replaced in mid 1963 by the Mk.2 (Both Models with outside door hinges & sliding windows)
but the Mk.2 had its engine upgraded from 850cc to 998cc.
The Mk.3 was the first of ALL the Minis to get hidden door hinges & wind-up windows... prodution of the Mk.3 ended in 1968.
Original U.K. registrations can also help in answering the question what year is my car ?
Thus : The last letter on the registration plate indicates the year of first registraton as follows : -
A = 1963 : B = 1964 : C = 1965 : D = 1966 : E = 1967 and F = 1968.(Assuming that the reg. on the car has been retained from new).
David 2010

I've had people who are supposed Mini experts call me a liar that my 1968 Elf is a MKIII. They assume that the Mini was the leader in mark changes. Nope, wrong answer.

But David, if Elf and Hornet MKIII production ended in 1968, what about the 1969 cars?

i presume if production ended in '68 there will of been a few unsold models kicking about in '69.

Ok I'll plead ignorance on the mk1 thing. Having been into minis before, I assumed 1965 = mk1. So my question is is there a book / internet resource on rileys / hornets that can tell me all the correct trim / body features?

I plan to go original spec plus period correct modifications (with the one exeption of running an alternator). As the car was comprehensively customised in the 80s I can't assume what's there is right

Red Riley wrote:But David, if Elf and Hornet MKIII production ended in 1968, what about the 1969 cars?

Hi Red Riley,
I've re-checked my sources this morning and also consulted Somerford Mini and Wikipedia.
They agree with you and state that BMC shut down Elf & Hornet production late in 1969 so as to give the new Mini Clubman a boost.
Shame really as all 3 models could have happily co-existed out there ( as they do to-day ).

So to summarise : Mk.1 produced from 1961 to 1963 Chassis Nos ELF = R-A2S1 from 156851 to 310706*:Hornet = W-A2S1 from 156861
Mk.2 produced from 1963 to 1966 Chassis Nos. ELF = R-A2S2 from 369601 :Hornet = W-A2S2 from 367151
Mk.3 produced from 1966 to 1969 Chassis Nos. ELF = R-A2S3 from 930221 :Hornet = W-A2S3 from 927473
*Nov 1962.

The introduction of the 998cc engine with the Mk.2 was 5 years before the standard Mini received a similar motor.
The introduction of wind-up windows ; internalised door hinges ; fresh air vents & disc brakes in the Mk.3 - almost 3 years ahead of Mini.
Total Production Figures (all Marks) : ELF = 30,912 : Hornet = 28,455.
Apologies for any confusion caused
David 2010.

Hi David. thanks for all that information, some of which We already have on our Timeline (click on Main site, top right on this screen.)

We have a fair amount of information there.
Other readers may find information on the Main site too and can save themselves time researching.
Tony
Admin

Two points.

The Australian and South African Mini owners would probably give one an argument (and rightly so) about which Minis were first produced with wind up windows.

Someday, we will have to come up with a way to differentiate between the early and late Mk III Elf/Hornet cars. Those produced during the standard saloon Mk I time frame retain some Mk I features with the later '67+ ones taking on the Mk II features. I usually speak of them as MK IIIa and IIIb when trying to be more precise about changes. I know another who uses MK III and Mk IV. Of course, neither are correct, but one does have to be careful when discussing "all Mk IIIs" have this or that characteristic.

Going to pick the car up tomorrow, 160 mile round trip including towing back a trailer I've not used before in the dark. I've sorted my tow bar electrics. Sourced a spare set of wheels with good tyres. As long as the wheel nuts turn up in the post tomorrow I'm good to go.

Will try to get pictures up once I've got the car, how many posts do i need on this forum to be able to post pictures?

Phil

hope it went ok

Mowogler wrote:Going to pick the car up tomorrow, 160 mile round trip including towing back a trailer I've not used before in the dark. I've sorted my tow bar electrics. Sourced a spare set of wheels with good tyres. As long as the wheel nuts turn up in the post tomorrow I'm good to go.

Will try to get pictures up once I've got the car, how many posts do i need on this forum to be able to post pictures?

Phil

I'm not sure there's a minimum requirement. Post again and give it a try.

David2010 wrote:

disc brakes in the Mk.3 - almost 3 years ahead of Mini.

That's news to me that any Elf/ Hornet had discs ??

Missed that one. Correct, no disc brakes.

To be picky, it is Mk III, not Mk 3. The only two Minis I know of badged as Mk 3 were one model of Innocenti and the "replacement" for the South African Wolseley 1000.

Picked up the car yesterday, pretty uneventful trip. The only real exiting moment was when a Mercedes cut in front of me then braked to get to a slip road. 1955 Le Mans with me scrabbling for brakes.

Bad news is the car's rotten, the rear wings are like lace and the front panel is composed entirely of iron oxide. Ho hum. Oddly the underneath is better than the top as the previous owner did the floors a few years back.

Does anyone out there have a shell that's good on top and rotten underneath?